Haunted by the Bob

GOD IS FOR STRAIGHT PEOPLE, Jod is for the LGBTQIA+ community. 

Join Holly and Nick as they read Tarot LIVE ON POD! Ghost stories, twinks, and grassroots psychics—all on this week’s episode! 

Don’t forget to set your intentions, consider schizophrenia simulators, and ask permission when you want to say “fag.” 

Thank you for listening queenifers!

Digress & Confess was created by us—Holly, Nick, & Melissa. The show's music was mixed by Nick, with credit to Kevin Macleod. The show is edited by Nick (& sometimes Melissa). Thank you to Brian for your editing guidance. Thank you to Jess for taking our season 1 show photo.

Follow the show on Instagram @digressconfesspod for the latest!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Digress and confess.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Um, hello, listeners. Welcome back to another episode of Digressing Confess. Um, you're you're live with Holly and Nick. Melissa is not here due to having, ooh, ASMR. Due to she had a long um weekend. So she's not potting with us, but she did still let us into her apartment community room so graciously. So it's just Nick and I today, and he has some tarot cards. Tarot. And he's doing a spread for us for the episode. Yeah, for the episode. So I gotta, yeah, we gotta put all of our all of our intention into the episode.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

Ooh, we got the world. Ooh, okay, this will take a second. Okay, this actually is really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03

So this is the past, the present, and the future. So for the past, everyone, the past is the three of shields.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

But it's upside down, so that means there's like a complication with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

So the meaning of this card is about learning, labor, and skills. And I do think we've learned a lot on our podcast so far. So this would make sense that our podcast is that this is in the past, that we were learning about our skills, and we struggled a little bit, but we made it. I'm feeling really good about that. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

And listeners, I'd like to just describe the atmosphere right now because it's about to rain. And so the room is like the lighting is like, I don't know. I mean, if you see this on video and I describe it as mood lighting, you're gonna say that's not mood lighting, but like trust in person, it's like there's a little bit of a vibe. There's a I wouldn't say spooky, but there's a I don't know, there's just a vibe in the room.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

There is, it's a little spooky.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Melissa would be kind of rolling her eyes here.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

She'd say it's lighting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Not us though.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

No, thanks. We're locked in. The present card is the father, and its keywords are structure, authority, and regulation. But again, it's upside down, so that means there's like a like a struggle with it or like something's complicated with it. So in its reverse position, it may imply that the heart is not fully engaged with the question. Um it may all be it may be all head, so reel in your head and reel out a little heart. Bring feeling into the matter. I don't quite know what that means. Don't question the tarot.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Next. Next.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Okay, and this is the card for the future of our podcast or this episode, I don't know. This one is a culmination, conclusion, and accomplishment. Wow. So it means it's a lot to do with it encompasses everything. The world is everything. Your task is complete. There is literally nothing else you can do. It is done. Sometimes conclusion is not only something we crave, but when it actually arrives waving at your doorstep, it can leave us feeling a little bewildered when the job is done, when the task has reached its desired or inevitable conclusion. There's nothing you can do but accept it, acknowledge it, and move on. Well, hey, that's a really good card for the future because we're not done yet, babe.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

So true. Wow. I'm thinking about this as like a reading for the podcast at large and not necessarily this episode.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Because okay, so the past was all about Skills. Yeah, and like rule and like rules and labor.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

Yeah, this one was the present, it's like rules and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Okay. So I think the past was reflective of how how we were in the past. But I feel like we came into this trying to have like um well, first it was like no structure whatsoever, and then we recorded some like really awkward episodes, and we're like, okay, I think we need structure.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

We do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I'm the one who said that because I was the one who was insistent that there was no structure, and you and Melissa, type A Virgos, were like, oh, okay, do whatever you think.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

We did a good job though of like stepping back and being like, no, we're though we're not gonna do our Virgo thing and tell you what to do.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Right. And I did my kind of Sagittarius thing of like, I'm just gonna do I'm just gonna show up. Yeah. I'm just gonna show up.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

And you did.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

And I did, and it wasn't great. So I was like, okay, maybe we do need some some. Yeah, some structure, some whatever.

SPEAKER_05 4:27

And that's what we've been trying.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yes. So the present, I feel like we are leaning into more structure, but also the the matter of like the heart not being in it. I mean, I feel like I feel like we have been a little lax with the pod lately in terms of like we haven't been recording as like frequently as we normally do, even like our our Rory mini sod. Sorry if you've been looking forward to that. We haven't recorded one in a long time. They'll come back, but we're what like four episodes behind.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah, so I could I could see that. Maybe maybe the heart's not there currently in this present moment. But then the future.

SPEAKER_05 5:01

This is a good card that I think because I mean, you know, all things do end, and I think the podcast, I feel really good, and I think we've established a good rhythm of like keeping going, whether if there's a like listenership or not, like exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

It's just fun.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

But this is kind of a card that indicates that like when it eventually comes to a conclusion, we will feel peace, like we will feel ready for it. Right. And so this isn't a cause of concern, it's a cause of like, oh, we will find an inevitable conclusion and we'll feel good about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

So I feel good about that.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

And two, Melissa's time on the pod in person is concluding. That's true. So maybe soon.

SPEAKER_05 5:37

Maybe that maybe this is resemblance of like the pod as we have established is gonna look different going forward. So maybe that's what this is indicating. Like Wow. Wow. Oh huge. That's actually is pretty huge.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

Oh. Have you ever had your tarot read before?

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 5:55

I love tarot.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah, not by like a professional, just friends who who like it and do it and whatever. But um, I would be curious to go see like a psychic under like a fake name. I kind of wanted to when Melissa and I were in New Orleans, but I was sort of like, we're gonna get scammed in New Orleans. Like, I want an authentic experience. Like, I want to go to like a little hole in the wall place. I want an elderly woman to greet me, or maybe an elderly man, but preferably a woman because women just know things. Woman, queer person. Yeah, just whatever. I'm open. Hey, hey, happy pride month. I'm open.

SPEAKER_05 6:30

Happy Pride, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

And I want her to just like tell me something that's gonna really rock my world.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

I was gonna say, do you want her to like read you for filth?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Or like well, I just like want I want honesty and authenticity. And I I feel like in a place like New Orleans where they're like advertising tarot and whatever on the street, I feel like would it be an authentic experience? I feel like it, I feel like you would have to like have a referral to have an authentic tarot experience or psychic experience in New Orleans. Like you'd have to have like a referral from someone who like lives there and like knows someone, yeah. And not just like someone that you found on Bourbon Street.

SPEAKER_05 7:05

True, you know, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, so maybe that's good. I know there's a psychic in Tangletown that I've been I pass sometimes when I'm going to work, and I'm like, oh, maybe I should like check it out. I don't know. Maybe we should go.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Okay, I'm down.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

But this got me thinking about like psychics and mediums. Like, is there like kind of in the same way? Like, as I'm watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, there's a lot of psychics and mediums that come up every now and again. Well, I feel like in just the Real Housewives franchise, there's things like call the Alice and Dubois of it all.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Exactly. Of course. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, but I also think like psychics to the stars are like quacks a little bit sometimes. That's how I feel about it. But then there is that um, what's his name? Uh Tyler Henry, the one who does all the like scribbling and stuff. He's kind of a psychic to the stars. Yeah. And he seems legit, but he didn't start that way. Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

I feel right. Um grassroots.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, gr I need a grassroots psychic. But I don't know. I think it would depend on the scenario, like the vibe. I don't know. Because I did see um we did have a psychic once at a holiday party.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, for my the first salon I worked at. Oh, yeah. Some random old lady, some old crone named Ruth, who basically just told everyone that like they were fat and that's why they were having problems. She told me I didn't, mind you, I was brand new at this salon. Like I had gotten hired in like late November and the holiday party was like late December or like early January. So fresh out of school, brand new baby stylist.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, she told me that I didn't have a full book of clients because um I'm not going to places that attract the right clientele, and that I if you know, if I'm like meeting people at bars, they're not gonna follow through with like the networking that we're doing because it's a bar and it's not serious, and I should like really focus on myself and on my body and go to the gym and like meet people at the gym, and that's what and like those are gonna be people who are gonna want to come in and be clients. Yeah. She also told like multiple people that they were struggling with infertility because they were fat and needed to lose weight. Like, she really was kind of like super fat phobic, yeah. Super fat phobic, and um, she also was like she was doing small group readings. So I remember in my group reading, it was like me and I think three of my coworkers, two of them were not white, and their readings were very like I can tell you like the high life. Are you um are you single? Okay, I really see you with maybe like an NBA player, like an athlete. I I know you want luxury, you want the high life. You want to be, you know, designer bag on your arm, you want to be kind of like, yeah, you just she kept saying that they wanted the high life and that they should um seek out professional athletes, or that's like who she saw them with. It's like, why are you telling that to the two brown girls in the room?

SPEAKER_05 10:01

Yeah, right, yeah. That's weird. Yeah, it's very suspicious. Wow. I say, hey, don't trust a fat phobic psychic.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Right. And then you're telling, and I also I'm thinking back, I'm like, I wasn't even like fat at the time either.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

No, you weren't.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Because this would have been like 2015.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

Yes. What?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

I was very normal size.

SPEAKER_05 10:20

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

But yeah, you're a fat alcoholic, that's why you don't have clients.

unknown 10:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah. Super crazy. One of my uh clients was pregnant, or not clients, one of my coworkers was pregnant too, and she was like, You're having a girl. I know it's a girl. It was a boy.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah. So she kind of just didn't really know what was going on. Yeah. But then too, with the Beverly Hills of it all, I do think those women are probably getting scammed a lot as well because they're rich. And like, you know how it is with like the woo-woo LA type of people, Southern California crowd. Yes. I feel like they'll pay a lot of money to be told something that like to be told like vague therapy-esque talking points. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 11:04

No, 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

I'm sensing success in your future. Yeah. I'm sensing that you've recently overcome a toxic situation.

SPEAKER_05 11:13

Yeah. And then they put together the dots. They're like, whoa my god, you're so right.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 11:19

I recently got in a car accident. You're right. It was so sparkly.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

And give the psychic more information.

SPEAKER_05 11:23

More information. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah. Exactly. Like I remember, I remember asking Ruth our psychic because you know, I wear my mom's my birth mom's ring all the time. Yes. And I remember being like, What is do you do you like feel sense any energy from this ring? And she was like, death. And I was like, yeah, it was my mom, my mom who passed away. It was her ring. She said, Yeah. So like I imagine psychics get asked that type of stuff all the time. Of like, this piece of jewelry I'm wearing, I just want to ask you about it. Not for any particular reason. It's just a piece of jewelry that I have.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

True.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

And it's like that's your dead relative's ring. She's always with you. Or whatever. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Always watching over you. Yeah. Just vague, vague, vague. So people overshare and then they have stuff to wear.

SPEAKER_05 12:12

Wow. Yeah. Do you believe in ghosts?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Of course I do.

SPEAKER_05 12:16

Good.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:17

I do too.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Because I was haunted.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

This is a normal ass episode.

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

So were you haunted?

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Yeah, did I tell you the story of how I was haunted by my my great aunt?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

No.

SPEAKER_05 12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

What the heck?

SPEAKER_05 12:31

Here's the story. Here's this buckle up. This is our Halloween episode in James.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah, by the way, did I say that well welcome to Digress and Confess?

SPEAKER_05 12:39

Welcome, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Where are we? 30 minutes in? No, we're going to go.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah. Welcome to Digress and Confess.

SPEAKER_05 12:45

You made it this far.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

You did. And we're getting into I think we planned on talking about talking about that gay shit because it's pride, happy pride. But here we are.

SPEAKER_05 12:58

There's also, I don't know, there's something very spooky about pride. I feel like all gay people like horror films.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Circuit gays scare me.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Yeah. Yeah. And that's true for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

True for many.

SPEAKER_05 13:07

True for many.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

True for many.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

But no, I was uh I was haunted by my uh, I think it was my great aunt Hilda. Um Hilda, what a name. Hilda. Or is it Hulda? I forget exactly how it's pronounced, but I know it starts with an H and ends with a duh. Um great. So basically, one Christmas, my cousin was gifted a uh ghost hunting kit. This was like 2010, probably earlier.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Um and he got what came in the kit.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

It was a couple of voice recorders, I think like a really cheap electronic measuring device. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Um the like electronic wave device.

SPEAKER_05 13:45

It has a like some other stuff, yeah. What EMP, is that right? Yeah, something like that. Um and so yeah, it came with a few of those things. So of course, there's an old farmhouse on the farm, and so we're like, let's go. It's Christmas night. Let's go have a blast into this old house that's like falling apart.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

The night of the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_05 14:04

The night of the Holy Ghost. And right? Is that right? I don't think that's right. No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Who's the Holy Ghost? Isn't God the Hol Jesus?

SPEAKER_05 14:13

Yeah. No. No, there's Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Don't look at it. You should know that.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

Father, son, and Holy Spirit. Father is God, the Son is Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit, which is this entity.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:31

I think of it as like solid, liquid, and gas, but that's real. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Um I guess I th I always thought the Holy Ghost was was God or or His Son Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

And that's the thing, is it's supposed to be like it's all three of them, baby. Right. Because it's the three in one thruple. It's the thruple.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Famous thruples. The father, the son, and the holy. I'm always saying that.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

That's really good. Uh famous thruples. Do we know any other famous thruples? No.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

No.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Anyway. Back to the farm, the creepy farm. We had one recorder in the old kitchen, and we had a recorder in the living room. And we were in the living room at one point, and we were like, Is anybody here? Make yourself known.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

When was this?

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Uh, probably 2010-ish or like maybe perfect time to do it. Like 2009, yeah. Like, still a kid, still having a blast. Uh, we were we reviewed some of the footage the next morning, and when we asked one of the questions, when we were standing in the living room, we got something on the on the recorder in the kitchen, and it just said like this is Hilda, or something like that, like some sort of like female voice that was like very clearly like a female voice.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Really?

SPEAKER_05 15:48

And this is the scariest part.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Do you think it was anyone who was like on the property, like fucking with you?

SPEAKER_05 15:55

I don't think so. So it was like, I think one in the morning. Okay, and everyone that was on the case.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Parents and stuff were asleep.

SPEAKER_05 16:01

Everyone was asleep, and so everyone that we knew was accounted for in our room. Like, all of us were there. So, like, there was no way that we could have yeah, somebody could have whispered that. So, like, it was spooky, and that night I had a terrifying dream. This terrifying dream.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I have full body chills.

SPEAKER_05 16:19

I was in the old house when it was like in its prime when people were living there. And I remember walking inside, and there was this woman standing in the kitchen, and it was this large, larger woman, which I've seen pictures of. Fat, fat, and she's uh not Auntie Huldah Hilda, but uh some other woman that was there. And in my in my dream, she turns around and looks at me and points at me like this, and then mouth gape screams, and then she like looks up at the ceiling, and then right as I like turn and look up at the ceiling, it's like dripping with blood. Are you kidding? And then I wake up.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

I l oh look at my arm.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

No, yeah, oh my god, and then I wake up, it's not over yet.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

I wake up and she's at the end of your bed.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

At the end of my bed. Not this woman, it's a different woman. So the silhouette is like an uh like a 1920s bob cut kind of silhouette, and a woman just like in a little dress thing, and I was like, oh my god, happy Christmas, I guess. Like what? Wow, and so that's how it started.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

I literally like my skin like hurts from the goosebumps.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

I'm like it's like there's so much.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

It's just bone chilling.

SPEAKER_05 17:30

So, and I keep saying this is Auntie Hilda. I don't know if like that's exactly who it was, but like this is how this was my experience, this is how I saw her.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:39

So for about the next six months, this spirit entity had followed me back to Burnsville. She latched on to you. She latched on to me, she said, Hey, you're cute, you're coming with me. Or whoever it was. Whoever it was, followed me.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Because was that her farmhouse you were at?

SPEAKER_05 17:55

I believe so, yes. And there were a few people that died in that farmhouse. So one of them And I think it might have been Auntie Holdo. Yeah, I think so. So, what happened in Burnsville serious like over several weeks? The first night I noticed it, well, in my bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

I also would like to, as we're discussing this, I'd like to. We should have done this before.

SPEAKER_05 18:18

What?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

And Melissa experienced me doing this in New Orleans. What I'd like to set an intention to any spirits that are with us that are let's do it right now.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Let's do it right now. Yeah, that are coming.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Any spirits that are finding us through the power of storytelling. Yes. You are not allowed to follow us.

SPEAKER_05 18:35

Please don't follow me.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, you're not allowed to follow us. You can join us respectfully in this room, but you have to stay in this room and you're not allowed to come with us. We wish you peace on your whatever journey you're on.

SPEAKER_05 18:47

But please don't linger.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah, please don't linger.

SPEAKER_05 18:49

Much love.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Much love. Okay, continue. So that's good.

SPEAKER_05 18:53

I like that intention. That's good. So in my in my old bedroom in Burnsville, I used to sleep uh facing the walls sometimes, but I would have my door open. That's just like how I like to sleep. It was the way that I liked. But my cat at the time, she would sometimes come and join me. So then like I would hear her enter the room and then I'd like roll over and be like, Snickers, come sit with me, you know, come to bed.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um Classic cat name.

SPEAKER_05 19:18

Classic cat name. I love her, miss her. Rest in peace, babe. Don't follow me. Um, she would, when she would enter the room, there was a spot in the right at the threshold of my door where um if a person stepped on it, it made a certain noise. And then if a person stepped off of it, it made another noise. Yeah. But Snickers was only heavy enough to like make the first sound and not the second one. Okay. So anytime I like heard that sound, yeah, I would like, you know, turn over it. And Snickers is here. Yeah, let's go. So one night, the the first night that I like felt something, um, I hear the sound and I roll over and I'm like, Snickers, come sit with me. Well, I see Snickers through the door, and Snickers is looking into my room, and her tail is puffed up. Like, she is scared. She's looking at something and is like terrified. And then as soon as I see Snickers, I hear the like off sound, and I like just freaked out because I like didn't know what to do. Yeah. Um, and so then I don't think I slept that night, and then of course had to go to school the next day. I was like, okay, that's fine. This is cool. So then, over like a series of about about six months, I would wake up periodically in the middle of the night, and I would see this silhouette appear.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

And the first time in the middle of the night, the first time I saw her, she was like at the doorway. And then like progressively she got closer and closer until like one night she was at the end of my bed. And I said, Ma'am, can you can you quit it? And I set an intention with her, and basically was like, I don't know how you got here, I don't know why you're here, but you're scaring me, and you're not really welcome here. So, like, I'm gonna send you on your way. Like, you're welcome to go wherever you wherever you need to go. Go on your way. I said, Bye, love you.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

And I haven't seen her since spirits listen, demons don't.

SPEAKER_05 21:04

That's right. And she listened, she heard me. Damons. Damn.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yeah, she wasn't like a demonic presence. She just was like, You called?

SPEAKER_05 21:13

You wanted me here, babe.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:15

And it just was like, it was spooky because she always would wake me up in the middle of the night. And I'd be like, I'm not, I don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

She wanted to queen out.

SPEAKER_05 21:22

She did. She was like, let's gossip.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah. Wait, so was this the the the flapper with the bob?

SPEAKER_05 21:27

Yeah, with the bob, the bob, the bob.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, the bob, haunted by the bob.

SPEAKER_05 21:33

And I would see her. And then, yeah, and then I eventually just was like, I'm I'm done, babe. And then sent her on the way, and I haven't seen her since.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Good.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

And I and I think about it a lot. So the thing is, is like there's a lot of times where I'm like, there's I don't know shit about ghosts. I don't know how that system works. I don't know what's going on, but like I've got this experience that happened directly to me.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:52

And it's really hard to invalidate that.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Like Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 21:55

I'm like, man.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Cause okay, let's say this was all some type of like. Hallucination or something. It still was real, and there that still is like there's much to yeah, there's much to unpack there because it's like, where do our minds go when we go to sleep? You know?

SPEAKER_05 22:12

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

And who visits us in our dreams? And like, are dreams important? If they weren't important, then why would they be happening? If they didn't have a purpose, why would they happen? Why would our brain, designed by LGBTQIA plus icon Jod, why would they do that?

SPEAKER_05 22:31

That's right. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Why would our brains dream if it wasn't of any significance?

SPEAKER_05 22:36

Yeah. Like it's gonna be helpful in some way.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

And I hesitate. Sometimes I feel like that type of thought process, I feel like you kind of dip your toe into like, we're perfectly created and designed by him.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

Oh, yeah. So I don't want to sound like that, but it's like in a way, like I mean kind of.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

In a way, we kind of are. Not not necessarily by God, but like by something.

SPEAKER_05 22:55

By evolution.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

I mean, like By evolution, whatever the the divine power of human life and consciousness and existence is.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Yeah. This is so interesting talking about evolution. Literally this week I was thinking about like when did humans stop having tails?

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Like, was Oh, I think about that all the time.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

Because I'm like, what when when did that happen? Like I know it was like millions of years ago, but like was it like were they short tails and then like the monkey tails got longer? Or like did we just lose them?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I guess we would have to like look into the evolution. Yeah, we'd have to ask Jeeves about the evolution of like the the primate, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 23:36

Yeah, true. Because I'm sure there's somebody's got an answer for it. I'm sure that's the right.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

I would say that's the most legitimate theory about how we all got here is that we evolved from primates. I believe that. I think most people who have any kind of belief in science believe that. Yeah, yeah. Um so yeah, I think it would just be about the evolution of like finding how far back. Like what where and how primates evolved.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

It's cool. It is really cool. It's way cooler.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Wow. This is the type of thing where I'm like, I bet it'd be so fun to like do mushrooms.

SPEAKER_05 24:10

Oh, yeah, and just talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah, if I could get past my fear of like being stuck in a bad trip and like having OCD for like a an OCD hell hell trip for eternity.

SPEAKER_05 24:22

For like 36 hours, but it's actually like an hour. Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

No, like I get I get scared that I would get stuck in a I would have a bad trip and I'd get stuck in it and I wouldn't be able to like come out of it.

SPEAKER_05 24:33

Oh like it would unlock something torturous in my brain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

So I'm too scared to to explore psychedelics for that reason. And it's it's you know, it's a bit of a vicious cycle because there is so much research um about like psychedelics being used to treat mental health problems. I know and like being effective in OCD treatment. But then there's you know, the OCD of it all. I know obsessively worrying about it.

SPEAKER_05 24:59

I mean, that's a but there's also this thing about schizophrenia in marijuana. Do you know about this connection?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Um vaguely, but like tell me, tell me.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

So it basically is like if you are already genetically predisposed for schizophrenia, you know, either through like your family lineage or whatever, or just you know, your genetics, smoking weed can sometimes unlock that, uh can like unlock schizophrenia earlier. So that's why for the longest time, like in the 70s, people were like, you're gonna smoke weed and you're gonna get schizophrenia. That's how it works. It's like, no, actually, it's like if if you're genetically like if your road is already going to lead to schizophrenia like in your 30s, like yeah, smoking weed when you're like 16 or 17 might, you know, make it like might like expedite the process, yeah. Yeah. But like that doesn't mean everybody who's gonna smoke weed is gonna get schizophrenia. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I used to follow this guy on TikTok who is schizophrenic, and he would um he was an artist and he would illustrate his his like delusions and his yeah, because he had um like auditory and visu visual hallucinations and he would illustrate them and like um they're really I'm like I have to pull it up and show you and I'll add it to the carousel.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

Okay, good, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Schizophrenia simulator. Schizophrenia simulator simulator.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

What my daily life is like.

SPEAKER_05 26:32

That truly is terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Isn't that so weird? I think it's very cool that he has the ability to like draw his hallucinations so that he can like share it with people. Yeah. But yeah, he sees these like really kind of uh spooky looking faces. And yeah, he has like happy ones. Oh yeah, I'll share this on our on the pod Instagram for those of you who are curious. But um, if you want to look him up as you're listening, it's XO rad magical. But yeah, he's a schizophrenic man, he's an artist, illustrator.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

But that's an excellent way of like kind of I don't know, I mean, a lot of things with like schizophrenia is there, it's like, I mean, it is scary because it is the experience could be overwhelming, but like there's a lot of mystery that surrounds it, which often turns into like misconceptions. And so I think that's an excellent kind of like activism of sorts to be like this is this is what we experience, this is what it's like.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Especially too, because like I've watched a lot of his videos and he said before that like his hallucinations aren't always like distressing, I guess. Like he that video I just showed you, he was drawing like this is my like happy hallucination. So sometimes he'll see like happy faces, and it's like he's just seeing these kind of like cartoonish looking faces that are talking to him as he like moves about the world and almost like narrating what's going on around him, which like sounds incredibly overwhelming and distressing, but it isn't always like um an evil demon that's like torturing you and cackling at you, yeah, cackling at you and like making you like really freak out, you know. Sometimes it's they're just I remember there was like I initially found him on TikTok and I remember one of the top comments on one of his like um hallucination simulator videos was like, So they just be chilling, huh? Oh, so they they just be chilling.

SPEAKER_05 28:18

Yeah, right. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

He was like, Yeah, sometimes you're right, yeah. Yeah, so but I was just reading something recently, I can't remember where. I think I saw it on like threads or something, but it was about like um, you know, of course there are commonalities, like schizophrenic commonalities across the world because it's a diagnosable disorder. You know, that's how disorders be. Um but how there are shared like delusions and stuff that vary by like country. So like an extremely common one in the United States is obviously like being watched by the government.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

And like, yeah, thinking that like your phone has been tapped and like they're in your mind and they're like controlling your mind, etc.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

It's a very like the delusions like have a theme.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yes, yeah, there's like common themes to delusions vary in different countries. I think it's like a common thing for the US and also I think in like the UK too, but not so much maybe in like India. Yeah, maybe, you know. But I don't know. I always say, and we can we can edit this out if it's controversial stuff. Okay, but I always say, I'm like, listen, crackheads and schizophrenics know stuff that we don't.

SPEAKER_05 29:30

They're locked into something.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

They are locked the fuck into something that we are not locked into.

SPEAKER_05 29:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Same, in my opinion, with like highly like um like very autistic people, like non-verbal autistic people. Like they're seeing something.

SPEAKER_05 29:48

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

Well, that's what people have said like before that you know, like the autistic brain or like the ADHD brain is like the next part of like human evolution. Like some people have posited that, saying that like this part of our brain is changing, kind of because like we're forcing it to with like technology and the like how fast we're like being connected, which like I don't really believe that part of it 100%. But like basically saying that like our brains are changing, but like that's natural. Like this is something that's like something that will happen over time. Yeah, and I think that's interesting because yeah, maybe we are locked into something else, like our brains are trying to learn more, see more, be a part of the universe more.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Maybe I do feel like there are I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, maybe schizophrenic people are like tapped into a different form of consciousness for real.

SPEAKER_05 30:40

Oh, like they they've got one foot on the other side. Yes, yeah, and they're seeing shit.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

That could be true.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

And we point at them and call them crazy because we can't understand what they're understanding.

SPEAKER_05 30:51

Because their experience is so different from ours, and we have to other them.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Right?

SPEAKER_05 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

It kind of is like we not to say that like schizophrenic people are right and their delusions are right. That's like not what I'm saying, but it does make you wonder, right? It does make you wonder. Like people whose brains function differently than yours. It kind of is like, you know, it makes me think of like, um, do we all see color differently? Your shirt to me is orange, and I see it as orange, but maybe you look at it, and orange to you looks how blue looks to me, but we both know that color as orange, correct.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

I love this series.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

It's like that type of thing, or even like how um there's language to everything. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Every living thing communicates in a language. We just like as human beings, I think we even to other human beings, like if we can't communicate with a shared language, then we assume less of whatever the other thing is we're trying to communicate. Like people are like, oh, fish don't have brains. Fish just like all they know is like eat food, swim up, down, left, right. That's so not true. That's so not true. Same with like birds, same with honestly, even trees and plants, they communicate with each other underground through like mycelium networks and like everything has a language, and just because you don't understand it, it doesn't mean that it isn't as intelligent as you. Or even like animals, dogs, like I don't know, they're talking to each other all the time. We just can't understand that.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

We can't understand it.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

But we know that dogs, most dogs are highly intelligent beings. Yeah, so why wouldn't that be true of like every other living thing?

SPEAKER_05 32:31

Did we already talk about like communicating in memes? Have we talked about that before on pod?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Communicating in memes?

SPEAKER_05 32:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_05 32:39

I guess I gave like a Star Trek example. I don't remember if I talked about this with you or who I was talking to. So there's there's an episode, there's an episode of Star Trek. Uh uh, the next generation. Yeah. And Captain Picard is put on a planet with like the captain of another ship. And this captain is like the translating device is like working. So like they understand the words that they're saying to each other, but this other man is basically saying, like, I don't I don't remember exactly what it was, but basically it was like Jack and Jill at Tanagra. And Captain Picard is like, What the fuck are you saying to me, dude? He's like, I'm trying my best to understand, but like the the whatever the translation matrix was like translating what he was saying, but this guy was saying Jack and Jill at Tanagra. Like, why don't you understand what I'm trying to tell you? Like Jack and Jill at Tanagra, obviously. But what was happening is this uh this alien species basically has like a core set of uh like words and phrases that refer to a simple thing. So whatever in their culture, they had a specific moment where Jack and Jill went to this hill, Tanagra, and then they were basically trying to like make peace with each other, and that's what that's what this guy was trying to say. Like, I'm trying to make peace with you, dude. Like, like like Jack and Jill at Tanagra.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Right.

SPEAKER_05 34:01

But like in our modern day culture, and this I saw an Instagram reel about it, so don't think this is like wow, Nick is pulling out some cool shit. No, I stole this. But somebody was like, This is kind of like us when we speak in memes, when people are like, Yeah, I'm Spider-Man pointing at pointing at each other, or insert any other meme where you like try to describe the meme to someone, and then that's kind of what you mean in the context.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, it's like um, I don't know, things are kind of added to like our lexicon. Um, yeah, a lot of it originates on the internet.

SPEAKER_05 34:32

It's sort of as like, you know, Taylor screaming and pointing at a cat.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, exactly. Communicating in yeah, memes have become like a kind of shared knowledge and a shared almost like vocabulary index a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

Correct. And that's kind of what this Star Trek episode was talking about in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

Even though they didn't have a lot of things. Yeah, it's just a different example of it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah. Because in the 80s, before um, before Al Gore invented the internet.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

We there there were ways that there I'm sure that there were like I'm trying to think of like 80s phrases, like gag me with a spoon, and like things like that, you know, where it's like there are there are always popular ways of speaking. There are always like maybe things that are in our vernacular.

SPEAKER_05 35:16

Yeah, maybe like movie quotes, because movies were still big in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah, but through media, like I'm sure, yeah. I remember being I'm I feel like I'm not being articulate right now, but I'm I'm I'm trying the point I'm trying to make is like pop culture influences how we speak and always has and always will.

SPEAKER_05 35:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

I'm sure even in like the 1800s, whatever the pop culture of the time was, there were like things that people said that other people added to their lexicon, and then they just came became part of like popular vernacular and like ways of it.

SPEAKER_05 35:50

And that's how people communicated with each other. It makes you think about like like in Finland, for instance, the like second, I mean, there's a few languages spoken in Finland. There's there's uh Finnish, Swedish, English, Russian, Spanish, there's like a lot of and Estonian, there's a lot of languages, but English is one that a lot of younger folks use. But like, since almost everybody knows English as well, they will just throw in random snippets of English words and phrases in a Finnish conversation.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:21

So there were a lot of times where I was sitting at a coffee shop and all of a sudden you'd hear people saying, like, I love it, and like spoken in a very like Finnish accent, but they like have added it to all their stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:31

And they're kind of the same way.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Because I'm sure it's like, you know, maybe there's like something that everyone from TikTok is saying, and so they like insert it into conversation because it's a popular thing to say because it's like trending on the internet. It's kind of like, have you ever seen that video of that like little gay German boy who's like really like really like talking fast in German, and then he'll he'll say like sleigh or like diva, or I think he says like Lady Gaga or like something uh it's something like that. I don't know. I'm not explaining it very well, but I'll add it to the carousel. Please do very funny.

SPEAKER_05 37:05

Yeah, I haven't seen that, but that's exactly the same vibes of like all of a sudden someone repeats a very popular phrase in English.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah, yeah, it's very funny.

SPEAKER_05 37:13

That's really um Happy Pride Month.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

I know, right? Pride month. What what a um this is like I feel like true digressions happening.

SPEAKER_05 37:23

No, it is, yeah, we're just going everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

And it all started with like a tarot reading, and now then went to a place of schizophrenia, and now like, you know.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

Now we're back to the gays.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:33

As it rightfully should be.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

As it rightfully should be. Yeah. Jod. Jod. What I said, Nick and I went to a coffee shop earlier. What I said is that God is for straight people, Jod is for gays.

SPEAKER_05 37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Jod is for the LGBTQIA plus.

SPEAKER_05 37:50

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Community.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Yeah. So yeah, what would you say to all of our gay followers?

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Um, to all of our queer listeners. Because I won't I won't discriminate against the other letters. Don't what I would say to our queer listeners, of which I'm sure there are many.

SPEAKER_05 38:10

They're legion.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Welcome home, girls. Welcome home, girls. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 38:16

There's a space for you at this table. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Yes. Oh, I actually would prefer if you were here at this table over anyone else.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

Come join us.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yeah, come join us. That's what I would say. What would you say?

SPEAKER_05 38:27

Thanks for welcoming me in, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Yeah, you'd say I saw you at the Gaga concert.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

That was you there, I knew.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

I knew it. Yeah. I just came back from the Gaga concert. Everyone knew you there. Everyone there knew who you were.

SPEAKER_05 38:42

I know him by name. Yeah. Wow. They talked about my mustache, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

I do have an experience of seeing, and we can bleep his name, but an iconic, um, queer person who we know and love, Mark. Yes, I love seeing him um for the first time since high school at the um entrance to the Kim Petres concert. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

Good.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

And he was with his partner, I believe. But he, you know, he's gotten a little buff since high school.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

And he likes he looks good.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

He he is now like an an out and proud gay man. And he wasn't the last time I knew him.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Um, and so he was kind of buff, and it was a Kim Petras concert, of course. So he was like, you know, muscled up in like a fishnet top and like leather gear.

SPEAKER_05 39:23

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

And I tapped his shoulder, I said, Mark? And he was he kind of looked at me, he's like, Holly! And I was like, Oh my god, and we hugged, and I was like, So nice to see you. I don't think I've seen you since we graduated. He's like, I know. And I said, And look at us now. And he was like, I know. So we had a very sweet moment. Huge yeah, I'm like likely placed to see a closeted gay guy from high school at the Kim Petrus concert. Yeah, yeah. Thought I saw you there.

SPEAKER_05 39:54

You knew the roster. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Were you okay? Remind me again, because listeners, as you may know, Nick and Melissa go way back to like middle school. Nick and I, we didn't really know each other until well, there's the famous story of Melissa having a party at her house when her parents were like gone one weekend. We were all like, I think this was like maybe the summer we graduated. No, it must have been the summer after everyone's freshman year. Oh I think I think everyone was home. Yes, and Melissa like had a bunch of people over. Um, and I remember talking to you and you were like, Did you go to Burnsville? And I was like, Yeah, I knew who you were. You don't know who I was. That's okay. That's okay. That's how that's how it should be. It keeps my mysterious aura. But anyway, a digression. I digress. Um I can't remember. Did you come out in high school?

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Right at the end of high school. So I came out at the end of my junior year.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

So then all of senior year I was out. Well, out-ish. I was so mentally ill that like I isolated myself quite heavily. And I felt like everyone hated me. So it was a really tough senior year. Well, and college, because guess who didn't take care of himself? Um But no, yeah, no, I was out at the end of at the end of junior year. So it was like trying to like really, really rough trying to figure it out that first year.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

But and if you don't mind, and I guess. And like, were you doing Coke?

SPEAKER_05 41:28

I was. No, I wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

No, but like, no, like in high school, were you doing like were you doing gay shit before you were out, like with other people?

SPEAKER_05 41:37

No, and that's the other thing is I like I think if I tried to, yeah, I would have like were you cruising in high school? Cruising at Neil Park, yeah.

unknown 41:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

You hadn't you hadn't encountered the trauma informed sonic yet?

SPEAKER_05 41:52

Exactly. I was like, I had to work up to it. It's a leap. No, I didn't, I didn't really do anything because um I was I was terrified, I was terrified of the rumor mill.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Which like of course was already well underway with me being gay anyway, because everybody knew. Like, let's be real. But um, I didn't want to like add fuel to the fire. Yeah. So then I knew that like I kind of was at a crossroads where I was like, okay, there's someone I'm interested in. I can like choose to pursue him either in private or like a little more publicly. But yeah, no, and we just I mean, we didn't really have much of anything we'd like to do. You really haven't changed.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

I'm like, you love just like a little, a little twink.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

I do. But passively like also the like guy next door, yeah, kind of vibe. I'm just like, I'm just here. I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

I would say now in your adulthood, you like someone who's who's experienced their twink death.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

Yes, that is so true. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Someone who's like on on the other side of their twink death positive.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Because there's on the other side of your twink death negative. Negative.

SPEAKER_05 42:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think definitely that. Like someone who's like really thought about how harmful they were as a twink and like how you know they need to really do some unlearning about their like twink evil.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

And the message the message we're sending this Pride Month is that twinks are evil and you can never trust them. They're all bad people. We're always saying that. Because you don't feel like you've ever been a twink, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:22

No, never. I think I really wanted to because that was like what I was interested in when I was younger.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Well, it's like what people think of when they think of gay guy.

SPEAKER_05 43:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Which also, can I ask you as a gay man? Yeah, what are your thoughts on like people um overusing the word twink now?

SPEAKER_05 43:39

Overusing? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Well, just like I feel like I hear a lot of straight people say twink. I feel like ultimately I do feel like twink has replaced fag.

SPEAKER_05 43:47

Yes. Yeah. I do think so.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

People know that they can't say fag anymore. I'm I shouldn't be saying fag either, but this is a safe space.

SPEAKER_05 43:54

You're in a safe space. You're also queer, so yeah, but like you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

I'm a bisexual woman who mostly didn't. I mean true true if you're not going to be able to do that. Should I be saying fag? But anyway, you give me some. You're welcome here. You're welcome to think that. But I do feel like straight people now are just some twink, and it's like it's like just say faggot. That's what you mean.

SPEAKER_05 44:12

No, it is. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Be honest with your words. Yeah. Don't say no if you mean may if you mean no. Like don't say maybe.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

So I do feel like people have kind of replaced twink is now like a slur. No. It's like in slur territory instead of just being a descriptor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:28

You know, I feel like I haven't seen that in the wild, but I could see that like on the internet, I feel is like big. Really? Okay. Yeah. I could see that. It got me thinking about like the categories that gay men place versus the ones that like lesbians place. I forget where I saw this, but it basically was like lesbians categorize themselves on like certain attributes.

SPEAKER_02 44:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:50

Of like you have the lipstick lesbian or the the butch lesbian. And um, but their categories are not based solely on like physical appearance.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:00

Whereas like you have this laundry list of like the gay community of like, do you have hair? Do you not? Are you muscular or not? And it's like this whole continuum.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Literally, it's like really crazy.

SPEAKER_05 45:13

And it's really it's crazy because it is basically like your worth and your category membership is only valued based on like how you look and how you look now. So what about those people at the border case that like don't fit into the bear category or into the cub category, but like kind of resemble that body type? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Like it's making me think of like a like a grid style like chart where it's like A is body hair, A horizontal.

SPEAKER_05 45:40

Oh yeah, but the X-axis.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is body hair. Yes. B is body shape.

SPEAKER_05 45:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

C butt size. Yeah. D, da da da. And so it's like, my favorite is B C. I like a B C or like an A E. Do you know what I mean? Where it's like you're it's like, it's like the chart of like the toast, the coffee, and the steak.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Yes. Yep. But for great chart. But for gay guys. Great chart. You gotta post that one on the character.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, but for the different types of gay guys.

SPEAKER_05 46:10

Yeah. So just put gay over it. Post that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:13

But no, that's exactly what I'm saying. Someone should make. I'm sure it has been made. I'm sure it's out there. I'm sure it's out there.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Where it's like the first column is all different torso shapes. The second column is all different um the thicknesses of chest hair.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

The third column is like butt size.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

The fourth column is like probably dick size.

SPEAKER_05 46:33

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

The fifth column is like dick color, probably.

SPEAKER_05 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

And shape.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Yeah. Who's gonna make the the the um the coffee steak toast chart? But for gay men.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

But for gay men. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Gay male bodies. Exactly. Yeah. Love.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

You got me thinking about like this stupid commercial about PD that I recently saw. Right. Do you know PD? PD? Peironi's disease?

SPEAKER_01 47:03

No.

SPEAKER_05 47:04

It's where your penis is bent.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

What do you mean bent?

SPEAKER_05 47:08

There's like a, I forget exactly what happens, but like there's some sort of plaque that builds up, and basically the shape of it changes, especially when it's erect. And there's literally like there's uh like an organization that's like trying to build awareness of it, and there's like certain medication for it. The website is called Bent Carrot. And I saw a commercial for this. Are you serious? So serious.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Bent carrots.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

Bent carrot. And I saw this recently because I was like, I well, I've been watching Doctor Who, and like sometimes there's like weird fucking ads that come on. And this was one where I was like what the fuck? I mean, I know it was like one in the morning, but like but it was like a one in the morning ad. Bent carrot.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

I feel like that's like the type of ad I'd see on like a on a porn site. Exactly. When I'm trying to jerk it and there's the weird ads on the side.

SPEAKER_05 47:58

Like, let me know. Bent carrot. What the fuck is that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:02

So making sure that you know PD was represented on the like coffee steak chart. It's important.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Love.

SPEAKER_05 48:10

PD rep.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Well, okay, so so once you um, yes, once you were out, which was senior year-ish, then you were doing gay shit. Then I was doing gay shit. Because what I was gonna ask is like if you kind of waited to like be a slut until you went to college. Because I do feel like that is like a quite common experience for queer people, but especially gay guys, of like you leave your hometown and then you're kind of like a it's like different person vibes, and then you can just like be free, yeah, and then they go crazy in college.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

Sex crazy in college, yes, that was very true. Yeah, basically it was like I I dated someone before we like slept together, so it was always like you know, I wanted to like have have a very like emotional connection before then, and then um yeah, then that's what I did in high school, but then yeah, once college had that kind of flipped the script a little bit. Yeah, but I feel like that's also pretty true. I feel like that's a really common common experience for for gay men.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:08

And maybe for straight men too. I don't know. Like college just you do what you want in college, hey.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

Right.

SPEAKER_05 49:13

Yeah, you do what you want.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Yeah, I didn't go to college, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

But but how's it feel to be free?

SPEAKER_01 49:18

To be what do you mean? To be just like a free free woman of queer experience.

SPEAKER_05 49:24

Yeah, you're not held shackled down by student loans.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Well, I think like, I don't know. I mean, I always, you know, I've always been a fierce ally. Yes, really since I mean, again, my hag destiny, my hag destiny. Well, even as like a young, like a well, okay. I'm really digressing. I was raised on the musical rent. So I've been listening to the rent soundtrack since I was like literally like three years old. Exactly. So you've been an ally your whole life. And I've known about AIDS for a long time. Longer than most of us impacted the gay male community.

SPEAKER_05 50:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

And it's always been, dare I say, a special interest of mine. Oh. AIDS epidemic. Oh, whoa.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

I know so much about it because really that's actually really cool though.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yeah, because I loved rent.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

Yeah, true. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

So in like seventh grade health class, when you learn about that shit.

SPEAKER_05 50:19

You said I already know.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Literally, the I remember our health teacher was like, Does anyone know what AIDS stands for? And I said, acquired immune deficiency syndrome. You slayed that. Yes. But anyway, not to associate gay men and being an ally with AIDS.

SPEAKER_05 50:35

Um lesbians showed up in the 80s and they did.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

They did. One thing about lesbians, they're gonna show up.

SPEAKER_05 50:43

And they do.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Yeah, and they they fucking do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:47

That's why we place the L first every time.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Literally, that's why the L's first. Yes. Have you ever met a lesbian who doesn't show up? Because I haven't.

SPEAKER_05 50:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

And show up, it doesn't really even matter what the context is. You can count on a lesbian to show up.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

That's right. And they will. They will.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

But anyway, I always was very like, I'm a huge ally, like talk Valentina.

SPEAKER_05 51:07

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

I've always been Valentina, and I always kind of had the belief of like, well, I'm straight, of course, but I don't know if I ever like if the if the vibe was right, like I I think I'd be open to it. Which is so funny because it's like, well, so you're not straight then.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Right. So that means you're not straight if you're open to the possibility of eventually being queer.

SPEAKER_05 51:31

Right. When when did this all happen for you? Like when did gay happen to you? Yeah, when did the gay come upon you?

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Um, not till my like mid-20s.

SPEAKER_05 51:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah. Which is funny because it's like after it happened and I had my first gay experience, I look back, I looked back on many instances in my life where I'm like, that was really gay of me, but I just didn't realize it at the time. Um, like I never had crushes on my friends or anything like that. Um, but I did have like, you know, really intense infatuations with like, I don't know, butch looking like singers or like stuff like that. Where I just like really admire her.

SPEAKER_05 52:10

Lesbians who play guitar.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Literally, yes, yes, yes. Um, I just like really like her for some reason. She seems like really cool. She's a cool girl. I just like can't stop like googling her, and I don't know, she just seems like really cool. I just really admire her. But I thought that like that's how everyone felt. Sometimes you just really admire people. True. Like sometimes I was gay. I was like, that that was a gay feeling. Yeah. So then it all started when I started working at a big crush on one of my coworkers.

SPEAKER_05 52:43

Oh, really? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Like to the point where it was like I would be like, we were like really heavily flirting. We were like, yeah. We were. Yeah. It was to the point where I would be like giggling and like nervous if we were in the break room alone together. And like, yeah. There was, I would say there was a little bit of like attention, kind of. So then we like start hanging out, like as friends, and then yeah, we went out one night and were like both a little drunk, uh, shared a drunk little makeout. That was my first time ever doing anything gay.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

And um yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:23

And you saw Jod.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

And I saw Jod, yeah. I kissed a girl and I liked it.

SPEAKER_05 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

I kissed a girl and I liked it. And it also was like, especially from like having the experience of like only ever dating men or being like intimate or sexual or whatever with men, it was like a very big lesson for me on like consent and boundaries and like whatever, because like one thing queer people are going to like make obvious, at least queer like women and like femme people are their boundaries and like consent and whatever. So yeah, yeah, this makes me like sound like I'm leading up to be like that's it, and I assaulted someone. I didn't, I did not, and I did not assault someone. No, no, no, no. So yeah, it was like this situation with a coworker where I like we obviously like kind of liked each other. She had prior experience with gay. I did not. She knew I was like a baby gay. Yeah, and so I of course was like thrilled after it happened. And I remember being like, Do you want to like because this was outside my apartment?

SPEAKER_05 54:23

I was like, Do you want to like do you wanna like yeah, yeah, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 54:27

And she was like, No, and I was like, Oh, okay, that's it.

SPEAKER_05 54:30

That's fine, no, it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

And then the next day we had this like work event. It was just her and I and our boss we're going to this like work event. Oh, and um I remember she texted me in the morning, she was like, She was like, How are you doing? She's like, Are you freaking out a little bit? I was like, No, like I'm I don't know, I feel pretty good, I guess. Like I feel fine. And she was like, she was like, okay, she's like, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I think that that was a mistake. Oh and I don't think yeah, I were you hurt by that? Of course I was, but I also was like, uh, okay. But then in my mind, having like the experience of like only ever being with men and to be honest, never being rejected sexually by anyone. In my mind, I like when she said that was a mistake, like I don't think we should do that again. In my mind at the time, I was like, well, I don't agree. You know what I mean? And so the tension kind of continued. It was still like somewhat flirtatious, but I definitely like was not, yeah, was not maybe respecting the first time she said, like, I think that was a mistake. I definitely was still trying to like, but no way do that again. Yeah, yeah, like and she was not. So she did eventually have to be like, I can't, like, you have to say, we're not doing it.

SPEAKER_05 55:47

You were treating it like a game a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

I was, yeah. Yeah, I was. And so, yeah, that was a very quick, easy lesson to learn about like, here's how it works in the queer worlds.

SPEAKER_05 55:57

Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:00

And now you're one of the administrators on queer exchange.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Oh god, I hope that doesn't make me sound like a rapist, where I'm like, No, God. Does that make me sound like crazy?

SPEAKER_05 56:07

Like I'm like, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Okay, you can we you can edit it.

SPEAKER_05 56:10

Yeah, I can I'll edit it on you.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

But yeah, it definitely was like a very, you know, when you're used to only ever having your like sexual advan advances accepted.

SPEAKER_05 56:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Because you're only having sex with men and they'll they're never gonna turn down some puss. Yeah. Then when you, I don't know, when you are eventually turned down, yeah. And like a hot gay person is like no.

SPEAKER_05 56:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

You're like, but wait. But wait, are you sure?

SPEAKER_05 56:37

Yeah, right. Like, do you want to?

SPEAKER_01 56:38

You're like, no, I'm sure. And you say, Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

But you could double check though, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Exactly. So yeah, I never like violated anyone's.

SPEAKER_05 56:44

Was that your like first rejection then?

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah, my first like queer one.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Yeah. I think, yeah, looking back, and we eventually like things were like kind of weird at work for a while. I imagine. Kind of difficult and weird, but now we've reached a place of like, I don't know, we're just acquaintances now. And it's funny because it's like I think back on it and I'm like, her. I was obsessed with her.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

Like really.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

And she's still, I you know, I still would consider her like really attractive, and yeah, she's very cool, like very talented, very whatever. But it's funny because I I was new at that job, and I feel like I know I got to know her quite well to the point where I was like, I can't believe I ever like was crushing on you like so hard. Yeah, you know, because now I just know you like in a real way, right? Not in a fake way, right?

SPEAKER_04 57:33

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Um, so that was my first gay experience. Yeah, making out drunkenly making out with my coworker who then rejected me immediately.

SPEAKER_05 57:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

And I didn't take it well.

SPEAKER_05 57:41

Oh my god. Our sweet angel.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Melissa is coming to talk to us. Oh my gosh. Say hi, Melissa.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

Just woke up.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Do you remember the um weekend update um like bit that was like teenager who just woke up? Yes. Yeah, and it was Andy I just woke up. That's me. That's literally you right now.

SPEAKER_05 58:06

Wait, who who who was that?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

It was Andy Sandberg, I think. Oh, I think his name was like Liam. Yeah. Teenager Who Just Woke Up.

SPEAKER_05 58:14

Oh, I remember this. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

Yeah. Yeah, that was my first gay experience, but it wasn't until I was like 24. And then after that happened, it was like off to the races. You know, I was on Tinder, yep. I was on all the apps cruising for some puss. Yeah. Wanted to have that experience. I was. I really was like, oh, there's a whole new world. And again, I think I do think though, having that immediate experience of like rejection did set me up for success for how how different the queer dating world is from the straight dating world. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Vic, like really different, really different. Very humbling too. Yes. As a as a an entry-level member. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:58

As a new player.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

As a new player. Yeah. So that that was my my first time being gay. But yeah, I was 24, I think. Which is a little later, I think, than most people have their sort of awakening.

SPEAKER_05 59:12

I was gonna say, I feel like there are also there's a group of people that like it is in their 20s. Yeah. People kind of figure it out.

SPEAKER_04 59:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:18

Like my roommate in Finland, for instance. It took him took him a minute to figure it out. So I think he was like 20. Yeah. 21. And he was like, oh, oh, oh, that's why I don't like women. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, so that's why. Oh, I get it. I get it now.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

So yeah, just you know, stay tuned the rest of the month for more queer storytelling.

SPEAKER_05 59:40

Oh, I just realized we don't have we don't have any confessions yet.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

We don't have confessions, but that's okay. This is a saintly week.

SPEAKER_05 59:46

This is a saintly week. We don't we don't need any confessions.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Because we're sinners. Yeah. We're sinners this month. How about that? How about that? We're sinners this month.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

I'm on the right track. Baby I was bone bread. Ooh, the rainbow on the way. Baby I was bonus way. Bonus way.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

So basically go out, be gay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:17

I was gonna say do crimes, but don't do crimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Yeah, support corporate pride only. Yeah. Shop at Target this month. We love you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Bye. Thank you for listening to The Grassing Fest. Our show was created and produced by us, Holly, Nick, and Melissa. Our show is edited by Nick. Our music is also by Nick. The views we share in our podcast are our own and do not represent the views of our employers. If you enjoyed hanging out with us, please rate and review wherever you're listening.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:45

T T Y Long